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| Author: | Randolph [ Wed Feb 05, 2014 9:28 am ] |
| Post subject: | Neck reset question |
I have a 1987 Martin J-40 that I believe needs a neck reset. It sights down the fretboard (not including frets) a ways south of the top of the fretboard. Frets seem fine. It plays in tune but the action is way high. I called a local repairman and he asked if the bridge had been shaved yet and suggested this as a possible repair depending on the severity. Is this advisable? It seems to me this would affect tone negatively. It has a standard Martin bridge. No work has ever been done on the guitar. |
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| Author: | johnparchem [ Wed Feb 05, 2014 10:22 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Neck reset question |
I do not know what the following means " It sights down the fretboard (not including frets) a ways south of the top of the fretboard.". I would take it in to a repair shop and let them look at the current setup. Working the saddle, checking the relief and the height of the strings at the nut may allow for some non-destructive improvement in the setup. Depending on the current height of the strings over the top at the saddle and the amount you need to lower the saddle to get the action you want it is possible that shaving the saddle can be a short term fix. If it really needs a neck reset I would and have done just that. BTW I believe that Martin has and possibly still uses different height bridges depending where the neck set is when it reaches that point on the factory floor. |
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| Author: | Randolph [ Wed Feb 05, 2014 10:49 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Neck reset question |
John. Thanks for the insight. The sentence should have read, "below the top of the bridge". I'm going to take some measurements later today and see exactly where I am |
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| Author: | bluescreek [ Wed Feb 05, 2014 11:45 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Neck reset question |
I am a Martin Authorized Repair Center. Shaving a bridge is a no no in my book. A saddle adjustment is indeed ok. Here is the Martin recommended set up first check the neck relief by holding the string on the 1st fret and on the 12th. You should see about a .004 to .009 gap at the 6th fret above the fret and under the string . Next what is the action height 5/64 1st 7/64 6th at the 12 th fret under the strings I can't stress enough that you don't want to ever shave a bridge. The only way I would say this would be ok is that you would have the strings at the front of the bridge at about 1/2 in and no saddle . Martin did use a heavy bridge in the 80's though rare. Most bridges would be 5/16 to 7/16 |
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| Author: | Rodger Knox [ Wed Feb 05, 2014 12:58 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Neck reset question |
I have to agree, shaving the bridge on a Martin is a really bad idea. The strings need to be about 1/2" off the top at the bridge, if they're less than that, a reset is appropriate. Shaving the bridge is a technique best applied to instruments worth less than the cost of a neck reset. |
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| Author: | Mike Baker [ Wed Feb 05, 2014 1:15 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Neck reset question |
Rodger Knox wrote: I have to agree, shaving the bridge on a Martin is a really bad idea. The strings need to be about 1/2" off the top at the bridge, if they're less than that, a reset is appropriate. Shaving the bridge is a technique best applied to instruments worth less than the cost of a neck reset. +1. The only time I've ever recommended it is on an older low end instrument. If the guitar was built correctly, with proper technique, decent woods, etc., a neck reset is the best way to handle it. In that case, I send them down the road to someone who knows how to do the job right. |
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| Author: | jfmckenna [ Wed Feb 05, 2014 3:41 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Neck reset question |
Shaving is a last resort on cheap guitars not worth a neck reset imho. A Martin reset is not terribly complicated. |
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| Author: | bluescreek [ Wed Feb 05, 2014 4:33 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Neck reset question |
best advice is find a new luthier |
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| Author: | Mike Baker [ Wed Feb 05, 2014 4:52 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Neck reset question |
bluescreek wrote: best advice is find a new luthier Yep. He's either suggesting shaving the bridge because he can't do a reset or doesn't want to take the time to do it right. Either way, find somebody else. |
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| Author: | B. Howard [ Thu Feb 06, 2014 8:47 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Neck reset question |
What John said...... |
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| Author: | Randolph [ Thu Feb 06, 2014 9:42 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Neck reset question |
Thanks everyone, for the help and expert advice. I will be nixing any advise to shave the bridge. Probably should find another luthier as well. By the way, John, what should a neck reset cost on a Martin like this? (assuming it was a pro that did it) He said he would charge $380. I imagine that a price too low would also be an indication of a lesser experienced person. |
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| Author: | jfmckenna [ Thu Feb 06, 2014 10:37 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Neck reset question |
Randolph wrote: Thanks everyone, for the help and expert advice. I will be nixing any advise to shave the bridge. Probably should find another luthier as well. By the way, John, what should a neck reset cost on a Martin like this? (assuming it was a pro that did it) He said he would charge $380. I imagine that a price too low would also be an indication of a lesser experienced person. The cost varies a lot depending on location, if it needs a refret, binding and so on. $380 is probably what a lot of experienced luthiers would charge like me who live in a very low cost of living area. Also I meant to mention before that your guy may have been asking you if the saddle (not the bridge) was already 'shaved' or filed down. That's a very reasonable question to ask. |
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| Author: | bluescreek [ Thu Feb 06, 2014 10:54 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Neck reset question |
As posted above there are variables. I charge $350 plain $380 for a bound board $40 to redress the frets $10 plain $15 bound to refret If the frets are in good shape and within the proper fret height a dressing should be expected . If the frets are worn I would replace them. Also you may or may not want a wedge under the fretboard extension to keep the board straight. It depends on how much the top dips. Be sure to ask a lot of questions , and that you feel comfortable with the person you are giving it to. If you have a gut feeling go with it. I don't charge for a new saddle unless it is ivory. Also the nut may need to be replaced that would be about $25 to $50 depending on the person. |
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| Author: | Tai Fu [ Thu Feb 06, 2014 2:05 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Neck reset question |
NEVER EVER shave down the bridge! Unless the bridge was way too thick to begin with. Shaving down the bridge might be a temporary fix, but you'd really have to shave down at least 1/8" to see any measurable improvement, and when you do that you weaken the bridge enough to cause the bridge plate to crack. So basically it's like putting stuff on credit. Cheap fix now and when you run out of bridge to shave (because shaving the bridge will cover you for not very long at all) you are not only looking at the cost to reset the neck, but you are also looking at bridge replacement, and possibly bridge plate replacement or overlay, adding probably another 200 dollars to your repair bill. |
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| Author: | John Arnold [ Mon Feb 10, 2014 12:03 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Neck reset question |
Quote: It has a standard Martin bridge. No work has ever been done on the guitar. Martin bridges vary in thickness. 11/32" is standard, 3/8" (or more) is thick, 5/16" is thin. These are all 'standard' Martin bridges. I see no problem with shaving a thick Martin bridge, particularly if the desired result can be achieved at 11/32". However, in most cases, if the saddle is already cut down and the action too high, this may not be enough to get decent action and saddle height. Quote: The strings need to be about 1/2" off the top at the bridge, if they're less than that, a reset is appropriate. The 1/2" measurement of the string height over the top is a general guide, and should not be applied indiscriminantly. Some lightly-built guitars are overstressed at 1/2", particularly if the player insists on medium gauge strings. A J-40 may very well be considered lightly-built, since it is a 16" wide body with scalloped bracing. Some evidence of that would be the amount of belly below the bridge. In other words, getting advice over the phone or on an Internet forum is no substitute for having an experienced hand evaluate the guitar in person. |
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| Author: | murrmac [ Mon Feb 10, 2014 1:08 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Neck reset question |
John Arnold wrote: Some lightly-built guitars are overstressed at 1/2", particularly if the player insists on medium gauge strings. A J-40 may very well be considered lightly-built, since it is a 16" wide body with scalloped bracing. John, what would be your target string/soundboard height for a J-40 with medium strings, assuming you were doing a neck reset ? |
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| Author: | John Arnold [ Mon Feb 10, 2014 1:16 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Neck reset question |
In most cases, I consider 1/2" to be a maximum for most any scalloped-brace Martin with medium strings. However, without evaluating the top stiffness, it is merely a guess. |
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